More Two Kingdoms Confusion - This Time from the Left

During a heated political debate--such as the on-going spat over health care reform--politicians are sore tempted to play the religion card as they troll for support.

Most often, it is the Christian right which is criticized in our circles, presumably because the activism of the "Christian" right is easier to spot.  Those in my circle have few dealings with the theologically liberal left.

So, when President Obama plays the religion card and in full campaign mode tells a group of religious leaders "we are God's partners in matters of life and death" and then asks them to "tell the stories of health care dilemmas to illustrate what is a stake" in their preaching, he is as guilty of confusing the two kingdoms as anyone on the Christian right has ever been.  (Click here: Army of the Lord? Obama Seeks Health Care Push From Pulpit - Political News - FOXNews.com)

If it is argued that government intrusion into personal health decisions and in funding "full reproductive rights" (a code word for abortion) are moral issues, and should be debated in an appropriate forum, I'll heartily agree. 

But lets keep the religion card out of political debate, and the health-care debate out of the pulpit!

Comments

[obey]

A few add'l thoughts: Abortion debate is a moral debate; to say that it is primarily political, is to dehumanize it, and that is what helps to keep it political rather than moral. Pro-lifers will not 'win' the political debate, if we 'lose' the moral debate.

We also need to 'back the truck-up', and seek to instill in the younger generation the old reliable virtues of modesty & self-control, and that abstinence until married is still right and good, no matter what the predominant culture says or encourages.

Z - when disagreed with, not every pro-lifer resorts to name-calling and childsh behavior. Those are just the ones who get all the press.

[John Yeazel]

The summer is almost over and the Riddleblog will soon be back to its lively exchange once again. There are some heated issues a brewing- can't wait for fall to get here. This was pretty good but hopefully the depth of our insight will start increasing. It is a lot of the same old song and dance once again. Two-kingdom theology and mixing politics and religion are certainly hot issues. May I recommend the reading of
D.G. Hart's books- especially Seeking a Better Country, The Lost Soul of American Protestantism and A Secular Faith. There are also some other titles by other others which are coming down the pike. Good reading and lets get a hold of this issue better.

[John Yeazel]

May I also suggest the reading of the following lyrics:

When your imagination has too much to say
When the chill of the night meets the sweat of the day
And you have trouble understanding what other people have to say
You'd better
hang on to your emotions
When a demagogue inside your head has taken charge
And by default what you say or do is criticized
And this litany of failures is recited a thousand times
You'd better
hang on to your emotions
Could it be you've never felt like that
That your mind's a cage - inside the cage a cat
That spits and scratches all it can get at
And that's you
And your emotions
Could it be you've never felt like that
Your mind's a cage - inside the cage a rat
Rabidly trying to get it
You
and your emotions
You and your emotions
When your imagination has too much to say
When that facile voice inside your head says give your life away
You might think to ask - how it got that way
What books it has read - that make it that way
And where it got the right - to speak to anyone that way
You'd better
hold on to your emotions
Hold on to your emotions

Just trying to add a little humor- you get a better effect of the lyrics when the music is played with it: check out Lou Reed's Set the Twilight Reeling. He is quite liberal but he captures truth in a humorous way

[John Yeazel]

This two-kingdom theology issue and amillenialism is what separates us from neo-evangelicalism, dispensationalism, theonomy and Kuyperian transform culture Calvinism. I think this is why it is causing so much heated discussion and controversy.

Seperation of the KIingdom of God and the Kingdom of man (or Church and State) gets easily confused in our thinking and we still carry lots of ideas in our head that are in opposition to the confessional standards we are supposed to be adhering to. The best reformational confessions definitlely do not confuse the two-kingdoms but make it perfectly clear that they are to remain separate and distinct.

[bil]

I'm coming into this discussion a little late but...

Isn't arguing whether abortion is primarily moral and secondarily political (or vice versa) a bit like arguing whether cookie monster is primarily blue and secondarily hairy (or vice versa)? Aren't they 2 different ways of discussing the same thing? Abortion is a procedure which can be discussed with regard to morals (ought a person willfully kill a fetus), or politically (ought a society/government allow the willfull killing of a fetus).

Somethings which are clearly immoral to us Christians, like worshipping other gods, probably ought not be made a political issue (sorry theonomists) - and other's should be made a political issue, eg murder. To argue that the morality of an issue or practice ought not be discussed in a political discussion seems silly to me.

I don't see how a Christian can argue that Abortion on demand is not immoral. I do see (faintly) how a Christian can question whether a government should allow an immoral act. I don't however see how one can make a firm dichotomy between the moral and political aspects of abortion. They are not the same thing but one definitely informs the discussion of the other.

[obey]

bil -
very well said...