Social Network Links
Powered by Squarespace
Search the Riddleblog
"Amillennialism 101" -- Audio and On-Line Resources
« You Know You Are Not Reformed If . . . | Main | Who Said That? »
Tuesday
Aug012006

Who Said That?

question mark.jpg

OK, who said this?

"Both the Old and the New Testament speak of a future conversion of Israel, Zech. 12:10; 13:1; II Cor. 3:15,16, and Rom. 11:25-29 seems to connect this with the end of time. Premillennialists have exploited this Scriptural teaching for their particular purpose. They maintain that there will be a national restoration and conversion of Israel, that the Jewish nation will be re-established in the Holy Land, and that this will take place immediately preceding or during the millennial reign of Jesus Christ. It is very doubtful, however, whether Scripture warrants the expectation that Israel will finally be re-established as a nation, and will as a nation turn to the Lord."

As usual, no google searches or cheating!  Leave your guesses in the comments section below!

Reader Comments (20)

Sounds sound, and predates 1948, obviously. L. Berkhof?
August 1, 2006 | Unregistered Commenter"lee n. field"
This is a tough one. Going out on a big limb - John Calvin?
August 1, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterRick B.
Now that I think about it -"premillennialist" wasn't even a word in Calvin's day.
So...Abraham Kuiper?
August 1, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterRick B.
Geerhardus Vos?
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterJeremy
Cornelis Venema?
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterWayne Rohde
O. T. Allis.
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterGreg Smith
i was going to guess kim riddlebarger....but i see the term "very doubtful" with regard to the premil interpretation, and i don't think he is, thankfully, given to such lingo.
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered Commenterzrim
Kim Riddlebarger?
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterBrianR
I need to change mine again.
I'm pretty convinced now that the quote is dated sometime after 1920 but before 1948 as the first respondent indicated.

So perhaps John Murray? Someone in that era
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterRick B.
Louis Berkhof
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterFrank
Has to be after 1948. If it was before 1948, he would be talking of future conversion of Jews and not Israel. It also has to be dispensational to use Zech 12:10 and Zech 13:1 to still be in the future. So it could be Pentecost, Showers, Hagee or any of those other dispensationalist!
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterSam I
Sam I,
What do you make of this part of the quote:
"It is very doubtful, however, whether Scripture warrants the expectation that Israel will finally be re-established as a nation..."

It depends on what he means by "nation" but didn't Israel become a nation in 1948?
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterRick B.
so what is made of the premil prediction "coming true"? i mean, if their system says that israel becomes a nation and it did, what's that say about their system?
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered Commenterzrim
Berkhof.
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterRichard
Rick B,

Thank you. Mistakenly i had assumed that only the first sentence was part of the quote. Now that I read it very differently.
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterSam I
Speaking of "exploitation" for one's "purposes," I looked at the final volume in Norm Geisler's systematic theology today - particularly the section where he "refuted" amill arguments against premill theory. Talk about a classic proof-text/spoof-text approach, where instead of doing exegesis, dispys like Geisler just back up their OT prophecy trucks and "DUMP" it all into the conjectured post-parousia millennium.

Of course Geisler had to throw in all sorts of accusations against amill theology, such as: "They spiritualize the Bible, but we take it literally," etc. I guess this is the thing to say when there is no substance to one's own system and arguments.

What gets me, though, is the endorsments on the back of the volume. You'd think it was the best theology ever! In reality, after looking at all four volumes in the series, it looks to me like a lot more of "Chosen But Free" type reasoning and (mis)use of Scripture, where passages are simply pigeon-holed in the dispy system ... AS IF THAT PROVES ANYTHING WHATSOEVER!

But why people are so ready to endorse stuff like this is beyond me. If they really understood the misuse of and/or lack of logic, I think they'd be embarrased to have their name associated with the likes of such authors.
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterWayne Rohde
It must be Dr. Strimple.
August 2, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterAnthony
I know it's not James Montgomery Boice. He was an amillennialist who believed Israel would undergo a future conversion based on a verse in Romans 11.
August 3, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterJohn D. Chitty
Who said it?
August 4, 2006 | Unregistered CommenterJeremy
I'm not so sure though, that Berkhof's conclusions were wrong. What he states is that it is "very doubtful . . . whether Scripture *warrants the expectation* that Israel will finally be re-established as a nation." Israel has indeed been restablished as a nation, but I'd argue that there is no Biblical promise or prediction for such thing.

If it can be coherently argued that those passages do not refer to what will happen in the 20th century, it would be true to say that Scripture does not *warrant the expectation* of things that will happen in the 20th century, even if such events might bear resemblance to the original context which biblical passages addressed. Israel might be nuked tomorrow, and become a nation again within a year, or whatever other scenario; one way or another, it seems to me that Scripture simply does not speak in any way of what will or will not happen to the modern secular state called Israel. If this is the case, Berkhof's assertion is entirely correct, since he speaks of warrant (i.e., author intent, and, presumably, divine intent).

In fact, anything, good or bad, that might happen to that secular nation can find "support" in some biblical passage (since there are plenty of passages predicting both judgment and blessing). That does not mean necessarily that the modern events can be correlated to the biblical data, or, in other words, it does not mean that what happens today is in fact what the Scripture was predicting in its original context, even if it might seem parallel. This would be a classic case of ad hoc, post hoc.

PostPost a New Comment

Enter your information below to add a new comment.

My response is on my own website »
Author Email (optional):
Author URL (optional):
Post:
 
All HTML will be escaped. Hyperlinks will be created for URLs automatically.