Did You Stop Beating Your Wife?

Yes, I know this is a trick question (along the lines of "can God make a rock so big he can't lift it?"). 

But in this case, this is no joke.  According to a popular young Saudi cleric, who is well-known for giving marital advice, young men should learn how to "properly" beat their wives.  Apparently, there is a right way and a wrong way. (click here: FOXNews.com - Saudi Marriage 'Expert' Advises Men in 'Right Way' to Beat Their Wives - International News | News o)

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"Admonish them – once, twice, three times, four times, ten times," he advised. "If this doesn't help, refuse to share their beds."

And if that doesn't work?

"Beat them," one of his three young advisees responded.

"That's right," Al-'Arifi said.

He goes on to calmly explain to the young men that hitting their future wives in the face is a no-no.

"Beating in the face is forbidden, even when it comes to animals," he explained. "Even if you want your camel or donkey to start walking, you are not allowed to beat it in the face. If this is true for animals, it is all the more true when it comes to humans. So beatings should be light and not in the face."

His final words of wisdom?

"Woman, it has gone too far. I can't bear it anymore," he tells the men to tell their wives. "If he beats her, the beatings must be light and must not make her face ugly.

"He must beat her where it will not leave marks. He should not beat her on the hand... He should beat her in some places where it will not cause any damage. He should not beat her like he would beat an animal or a child -- slapping them right and left.

"Unfortunately, many husbands beat their wives only when they get mad, and when they start beating, it as if they are punching a wall – they beat with their hands, right and left, and sometimes use their feet. Brother, it is a human being you are beating. This is forbidden. He must not do this."

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This is shocking, but comes as no surprise.  What dumbfounds me, however, is the desire expressed by so many multi-culturalists about eliminating the supposed patriarchalism of Christianity from the public square all the while touting the supposed glories (and wisdom) of Islam.

The quotes above particularly struck me (pun intended), since during our Wednesday night Bible study I was going through Ephesians 5 and Paul's exhortation to the church, "husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church."  Funny, Paul doesn't mention "beatings" or abuse when he talks about the roles of husbands.  No, he speaks about loving our wives as we love our own bodies. 
 

Comments

[Rana]

While I don't care for this post for many reasons, this practice may be common among lower classes and less educated people.

A few years ago I spent an afternoon in a remote village just outside of Aswan in Upper Egypt (the South). The men sat together and were served lunch. Then after the men had their fill the women were served lunch and I was able to share the gospel with at least 30 Muslim women in a crowded living room. They were so blessed to hear that the bible exhorts husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the church. They were genuinely surprised to hear that my husband does not beat me but rather loves me. They could not imagine! They pleaded to hear more about Christ and God's promises.

I agree with you that there is some weird multicultural ideas going around, but I also see a lot of exagerated Islamophobia being perpetuated, especially in American Evangelical circles and among neo-cons.

[Ivan]

Thanks for the post Kim
pun intended, huh? I chuckled.
Hey, good WHI regarding Reformation Day!
Thanks!

[carolyn]

Didja ever see the Christian domestic discipline website?

http://christiandomesticdiscipline.com/Articles.html

Somebody posted a horrified link to it on a forum I was reading a while ago. You think you've heard everything, and then realize you haven't heard it all yet.

It's an entire Christian group based around husbands spanking their (when rebellious) wives. Various verses and rationales twisted around to support their position. Sort of perverted, although some might find it funny. If you are bulemic it might help you barf.

Anyway, it isn't just the Muslims.

[Rana]

Carolyn,
I skimmed Deana's testimony on domestic discipline vs. domestic violence and seriously thought I was reading a Saturday Night Live skit.

[Scott]

I have to admit that my modern sensibilities would make me equally appalled with the beating of wives, children, and slaves, yet Scripture commends the second and regulates the third. I know Scripture doesn't err, but I don't think I can explain what the difference is between the three relationships that would allow the use of corporal punishment with the latter two categories and not the first.

[Trish]

Yeha but sometimes God disciplines and scourges every child.

[Robin]

I think it's a huge problem when domestic violence is mainly thought of as "physical." It neglects Jesus' teaching on sin.

Hatred or contempt in the heart blossom to verbal and emotional attacks and then may (or not) progress to physical acts. Agression can manifest in passive ways: from a dirty look to the displaying of a weapon meant to intimidate or coerce.

At the core, domestic violence stems from lack of empathy/compassion and respect towards another human being. It is selfishness to the enth degree from a worldview bent on self-entitlement; bereft of mercy in considering others (at all, let alone more important than one's self.) It is "adultery" because it betrays the covenant of marriage.

It's a "spirit of anti-Christ" because it is anti-Christian -- being thoroughly inhumane.

It spans a continuum from neglect and disappointment at least, to terror, despair or physical injury (including death) at it's worst.

We are ALL guilty of these proclivities for they describe the sinful-human condition. Just where are we on the continuum?

Jesus Christ restores true humanity - thank God!

Meanwhile, a useful question is "how can the Church discipline the rebellious effectively yet protect the victims of those who exploit her mercies to cover evil?"

Some ideas from "The Law of Perfect Freedom" chpt. "'Til Death Do Us Part" M. Horton

[Zrim]

Rana and Carolyn,

Contrarians. Kidding.

Seriously, I wonder how many Muslim blogs have a similar post about Fred Phelps child rearing advice? Trainwrecks seem like disingenuous ways to honestly measure a professed religion...eh, blahblahblah.

Zrim

[mattumanu]

"...He should not beat her like he would beat an animal or a child -- slapping them right and left..."

Like and animal OR a child? God help us.

[Robin]

Muhammad said:

"‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.' A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah's Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.' Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.'" Muslim:B1N142

[mirele]

Really, this is a lot of "pot, kettle, black."

I think the problem with women in both Islam and Christianity (as practiced by its followers) is its patriarchalism. (Judaism has the same problem, as do the Eastern religions.) We women have had to fight for the rights we now have against those who have thought and still think of women as second-class persons who must be guided by a male figure.

As a woman, I resent the fact that for centuries we were considered property, legally as children under a male, and unable to pursue education and professions--and this was encouraged by Christian doctrine. It took brave women willing to upset the status quo to get us where we are now. Christians may look askance upon Islam for wife beating, but your guiding light is Ephesians 5:22-24. Under that scripture I've seen where women have had their very personhood stolen from them in the name of submitting to their husbands as the church submits to Christ.

This woman has decided that the church is an unhealthy place to be, since women are treated as second-class citizens, despite Gal. 3:28. The church only wants submissive women who will always shut up in the face of men, and that's not how I was raised.

[Rana]

Zrim,

I agree. The Grusalem CCer in me was trying to "redeem this inch" of Islam train wreck. I am interested in genuine dialog and understanding.

We are having an Islam train wreck tomorrow on campus, 7:30pm. Why do people eat this stuff up?

[Jeff A.]

To what are women told to submit in Christianity, in relation to thier husbands? Being served as Christ served the Church...to being loved beyond all else and held in the highest esteem. To care which leads a man to see her as more important than anyone else,including himself. Paul's radical separation from the "women are property" paradigm of his culture must have made him seem unbelievably liberal. All women are not told to submit to all men, and women from Proverbs to Ephesians are actually encouraged to seek understanding in the ways which would have been most profitable (and the only ways seen as acceptable) in those cultures. I think itis helpful to seek the most viable context, definitions and purposes of Christian teaching, as well as those of other religions. Any Muslim cleric giving the above teaching is fully within the understanding of the Islamic law, any Christian clergy would be ridiculously outside Christian doctrine. Those in history who have promoted the harm of women in the name of Christ have misrepresented Him and His religion to the world.

[mirele]

Jeff A: I've seen where women were encouraged to stay in abusive marriages because they were told that they HAD TO SUBMIT to their husbands. They would be blessed because they were obeying God's command.

Some of them had the good sense to get out!

I don't have time to reinvent the wheel, but the second-class status of women in Christendom over the centuries is well-known, and supported by scriptures such as Eph. 5:22-24. The real-world application of same was that up until around 1900 (and in some states here in the USA until the latter half of the 20th century) married women were not competent in a legal sense to dispose of their own separate property. Their husbands had to agree. In the state where I was licensed to practice law (Texas, but I no longer practice), this did not change until 1967.

Seriously, patriarchalism infects Christian thought about as much as it does Islam. When you start with the idea that one sex is "weaker" and "needs guidance" and where God is imaged in exclusively male terms (oh a very hot button point but hear me out), you end up with a situation where women become the Other and it's OK to take from us everything, up to and including our personhood in the name of God. I don't believe this is much of a misrepresentation, but a grim truth that the male leadership of Christendom fails to acknowledge because it would undermine your power.

Not my cuppa tea, as I hope you've gathered.

[max]

"Seriously, patriarchalism infects Christian thought about as much as it does Islam."

Really? I've spent a good bit of time in Islamic countries - the patriarchalism that exists in Christendom (and I'll concede that it does exist) is NOTHING like it is in the islamic world. Even in Lebanon, which is very western (beruitis think they're parisians) women are very disadvantaged - not as bad as some islamic nations but it's just below the surface. Just ask any woman who's been divorced in Lebanon.

[Zrim]

R'na,

Our lapping it up only makes Calvinism's very point about total depravity (versus utter depravity, btw). We like to cast the other guy as having more foibles than us. I know I do; I am tempted to surface from the Scripture and think it implies evrything my culture deems as righteous, etc.

You do have to admit, though, that our Scripture certainly doesn't have the sort of thing Robin cites. But we ought to trod carefully if we are inclined to imply some sort of egalitarianism on the part of Xianity. Men and wowen are not, in point of fact, equal without distinction. I would contend that both special and natural revelation show that they are equal with distinction. Some call that sinful out-of-hand, but what can you do? They also call the Gospel sinful. I don't know about anyone else, but I can only say, "This is where I stand; I can do no other."

It is too bad that mierle has concluded as she has. I think she has some valid points, etc. I disdain Christendom for many reasons as well. But she confuses Christendom with the Church. The former is man-made, while the latter is God-built. I believe that sin will alos be upon our heads, as we have caused so many to stumble in our assumptions that Xianity implies the traditions of men and have linked it up with the interests of the sarx.

The Church is certainly filled with as much sin as there is outside. But it is lamentable to say the very least that it has kept her from the bosom of the Church. In the end, there is no excuse for rejecting the Gospel, good as they may be either in perception or reality.

Zrim

[Tory]

I found carolyn's CDD site pretty erotic, and I think we may be able to leverage that to make some major inroads to the Bay Area S&M scene? Waddya think?

http://christiandomesticdiscipline.com/Articles.html

I was especially excited by the part about approaching your spouse. "I am not a masochist, but I have a basic NEED to be forcefully dominated and punished with spankings."

How did they miss this during our last 8-weeks on mind-blowing earth-shaking Chrisitan sex.

[Jeff A.]

Poor practice doesn't make for poor principle. Anyone who has felt he could abuse his wife in the name of Christianity has done so contra the teaching of the faith. I could run around killing people in your name, declaring it for your glory...and it would have nothing at all to do with you. Yes, Christians have often poorly represented what is taught in the religion, but that goes to their blame and not that of Christ or Scripture.