Friday Feature--CCR (in Honor of John Hagee)

Is a bad moon rising, the same as a blood moon?

Comments

[Richard]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/is-support-for-israel-waning-among-evangelicals/2014/04/09/a75ead8c-bff7-11e3-9ee7-02c1e10a03f0_story.html
Love that you get quoted, Pastor Kim.

[pb]

I don't know, I always got a more apocalyptic vibe out of the extended version of "Suzie Q"

[R.J. Stevens]

Whatever you do, "don't go out tonight". <LOL>

[Will S.]

Remember, there's a bathroom on the right. ;)

[Grant]

It is possible for a Christian to believe in supporting Israel because it is the right thing to do and NOT because one is a "Dispensationalist". Israel is a small nation surrounded by countries who have clearly stated they want to wipe them off the map and commit genocide. And please remember - God has a special plan for EVERY nation in the world, he is sovereign over all.

[Will S.]

@ Grant: Are we Christians responsible for them? They can surely defend themselves, if they want to - or have their brethren in the rest of the world donate money for them to buy nukes. Why should America support Israel? They don't have oil; the other countries around there do; might as well not alienate them. Business is business; let's leave moralistic sentimentalism out of it. If God wants to protect them, He can surely do so, and will do so, without Americans' and Christians' help, if we don't give it. To heck with Israel!

[Kim Riddlebarger]

Grant:

Since the Abrahamic covenant is fulfilled in Christ (Romans 4; Galatians 2-4), whether or not a Christian should support the modern state of Israel is a political question, and not a theological one. The land promise has been fulfilled and universalized (Rom 4:13). There are good geopolitical reasons why Israel is an important American ally (it is a democracy; it has a thriving economy; it helps maintain peace and stability throughout the region). On the other hand, the Palestinian question and Israel's treatment of displaced peoples, always looms large in the background.

The problem is that far too many American Evangelicals mistakenly assume that the modern nation of Israel has a "covenant" with God. That the Mosaic covenant was fulfilled in the new covenant era becomes clear when Jesus called himself the "true vine" in John 15, when throughout the OT YHWH's vineyard was always Israel. And have you ever read the Book of Hebrews?

[Grant]

I agree - It is not only a political question but can also be a moral one and Israel is not perfect . I do, however, believe there are some aspects of the OT Covenants that do apply to geographic/ethnic Israel, am not an expert in these and not prepared to get involved in a heavy debate over them because this always leads to a heavy academic debate that requires one to fully understand the Covental Hermaneutic which I do not have time for. But that does not mean I would advocate the US going to war over a matter such as this. To say God does not have a special plan for Israel is just plain wrong - God has a unique plan for every nation and people on the planet.

And I do agree there are too many Evangelicals giving blind support for Israel.

What I do not understand about Covenant Theology is there are supposed to be 3(?) covenants (works, grace, creation (?)) - Jesus talks of a new covenant and Hebrews describes a "better" covenant where do these fit into the previous three ?

[Bob Reese]

Didn't John Fogerty write this song on May 14, 1948?

[Will S.]

If God has a unique plan for every single nation, then no one single nation is particularly special, by definition.

We, the Church, are the new Israel.

National Israel is not.

[reg]

Will,
Christ is Israel. The church is not Israel. The promises to Israel were fulfilled in Christ.

[Will S.]

Of course the promises to Israel were fulfilled in Christ, but as to who the people of God's Covenant are, instead of national Israel, it's the church now.

[Grant]

Well...Then at this point in time God's plan for Israel is the present paradigm, or is it your contention our disobedience or misguidance is outside of Gods sovereignty ?

Al Mohler has a strong, biblical rebuke of Hagee WITHOUT trying to label him as a Kooky Dispy:

http://www.albertmohler.com/2014/04/16/the-briefing-04-16-14/

[matt]

Grant,

You say that God has both a special and unique plan for everyone. You used both words. Can wonderful also be used?
thanks

[Grant]

All Gods works are Wonderful

Let them thank the LORD for his steadfast love, for his wondrous works to the children of man!