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Friday, July 4, 2014 at 07:42AM
Reader Comments (13)
Given New York's shameful abstention in this clip, how can you none the less persist in being Yankee's fan? ;)
The modern interpretation of Romans 13 is pure blasphemy. This scripture has been morphed into a doctrine espousing the “Divine Right of Kings” in which God has somehow chosen a king to ruthlessly rule over a people and it is incumbent upon the people to accept their “God-given fate”, The flock are commanded to “…submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.” This false interpretation is nothing but a divine coronation of a ruthless, self-serving government and Christians are expected to capitulate and honor the same kind of thievery, lawlessness and murder which inspired Jesus to expel the moneychangers from the Temple.
In actuality, no God of the Bible would ever command his followers to both enable and to serve the evil which permeates our government. For any church that encourages complete obedience to a corrupt government has taken a big step towards accepting the Mark of the Beast. This is a very dangerous precedent, and this could potentially imperil the salvation of millions if Christians allow this false doctrine to expand across our nation’s churches. WAKE-UP BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE MY FRIEND!
Please enlighten me. What then does Paul say in Romans 13? And which Caesar was in power when Paul penned the words "he is God's servant?"?
Thank you so much for your response to Mr. Reese. Hopefully, he is the one who will be enlightened!
Fair question...here's my response:
The essence of what we are talking about here is this: Does a Christian have the right (responsibility) today to resist an evil government in lieu of Romans 13 teaching of the responsibility of Christians to governing authorities? As with all interpretation of Scripture, it must be done first in the context in which it is spoken. In Romans 13, Paul is instructing warring Jews/Christians within the Roman church as to the GENERAL PRINCIPLE of submission to government. Key words: GENERAL PRINCIPLE. What he is talking about is what it means to be a good Christian overall (a living sacrifice Ch.12), NOT how Christians are fighting God if they resist an evil government. Paul says government has been instituted by God for the purpose of meeting out punishment for EVIL - that's why Government exists. "For he is a minister of God to thee for GOOD." (vs.4) It's not the purpose of Government to spy on me, listen to my phone calls, totally regulate every aspect of my life, imprison me and/or kill me (NDAA) without due cause or trial. How is that good? Hitler and the Nazi's were wonderful ministers of God for good to the Jews and Germans, right? How about the Communist regime in Russia? From 1917-1987, they murdered over 62,000,000 innocent people!
The point of Paul's teaching is this, if my neighbor rapes my wife, I don't take justice into my own hands and go blow his head off with a shotgun. I choose to submit and turn him over to the governmental authorities that God has set up FOR THE PURPOSE OF PUNISHING EVIL - who in time will exact the just punishment. I'm to pay taxes, obey the law, etc.. and in doing so I honor Christ as part of Paul's definition of "a living sacrifice" in Ch. 12. Paul is not even addressing the subject of an appropriate Christian response to an EVIL GOVERNMENT that forces Christians to disobey God.
The Bible is replete with instruction and examples of how GOD would APPROVE of Christians DISOBEYING government as it relates to when obedience to government means disobeying God. Ex. 1:17, 21; 1 Kings 18:4-16; Est. 4:16; Dan. 3:12-18; 6:10; Matt.2:12, Acts 5:29, Heb. 11:32-37, etc. James Dobson's (Focus On The Family) and Hobby Lobby's lawsuits against the tyrannical treasonous Uber-presidency of Barack Obama and his NWO elite banksters are just two examples of courageous Christians refusing to bow to the current Caesar and his unbiblical demands.
Not all "Kings and Princes" in governments are established by God, "They made Kings but not through me, they set up Princes, but I knew it not." (Hosea 8:4) "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and THE DRAGON GAVE HIM HIS POWER, and HIS SEAT, and great authority." (Rev. 13:2)
Kim, are you aware that Homeland Security is CURRENTLY seeking to control churches and ministers, before the impending train wreck comes to fruition inside of America? DHS desperately is seeking to control all Christians through the perversion of Romans 13 and this is one of two cornerstones in this movement designed to control Christian leaders. And this government foothold into the control of our churches begins with accepting the 501-C-3 tax exempt status which gives the government license to control the message and to ultimately pervert the word of God. Today’s church leaders for the most part are "bending over" in the face of evil, fearful they will lose their 501-C3 tax exempt status. They acquiesce to the evil and drag their followers to the gates of hell by demanding compliance to an illegitimate decidedly non-Christian forces which are subjugating this country. Very soon you will have to be promoting homosexuality (homo-weddings) and every other ungodly thing the Government forces you to adopt or you will lose your tax exempt status. Are you going to say, "Romans 13 tells me I need to submit to Caesar so guess I'll be doing those gay weddings after all." ????? See any problem here?
Ultimately this Government control of all churches/religion and the forced acceptance of the "One World Religion" will result in a complete falling away (the Great Apostasy) predicted in 2 Thes. Why do you think the "Man of Sin" is able to finally come out of the Church?
My primary concern was the super-heated rhetoric--way over the top. I'm glad you responded thoughtfully.
Look, I'm not naive about the civil kingdom--I'm with Reagan when he says the most terrifying words someone can hear is "I'm from the government, and I am here to help." Statism is a real problem on the political left--Nietzsche's will to power in action. You see this in the attitude of the left when they smugly affirm that we know how to run your life much better than you do--and then tax you to do it.
On the other hand, the conspiratorial/hyperbolic rhetoric of the right is not only factually challenged (Obama was in the Muslim Brotherhood--really?), but ignores the proper avenue for civil redress which remains open to all of us--elections. So far as I can tell, they are still being held, and Obama's two terms are about up. The nation has a chance to change direction. Granted, will there be a viable candidate on the right, or just another ideologue who hates the left? We haven't had a genuine leader in the White House for a long time.
But all the heated rhetoric from the right--conspiracy theories, "DHS is out to get us" etc.,--instead of making the case for liberty and the freedom of conscience, destroys all credibility. Be worried, granted. But be smart too. The right needs to stop yelling, inventing bogeymen, and work to convince people that our collective liberty is rapidly eroding.
Calvinist political resistance theory (grounded in Romans 13 and 1 Timothy 2) only kicks in when conscience is violated--granted this is now a real and pressing issue for Christians in America. But even the politically motivated Supreme Court ruled correctly, and we still have the option of passive resistance.
As long as I can call the local police on a Sunday morning if some unruly political activist disrupts our worship service (and the police show up and remove them) then we don't live under a tyrannical government. My take on tax-exempt status is that if you make a deal with Caesar, well then, you shouldn't be surprised when he expects you to comply. When it comes down to it, tax-exempt status was a bad idea in the first place, and churches ought to think about ways to wean themselves from all government entanglements.
And you never answered my question. Paul likely wrote Romans 13 while Nero was Caesar. While Scripture is clear that we must obey God rather than men, even in the face of the beast (Revelation 13), Christians never challenged the authority of the state, but resisted it by preaching the gospel and warning Caesar that his power came from God, and that God would vindicate their cause.
It is HIGHLY PROBABLE that Barack Obama is at least a closet member of the Muslim Brotherhood. He certainly is a radical supporter of it with his fanatical financial support of Al-Qaeda along with the newly formed Islamic Caliphate - which has been armed to the teeth by the U.S. through the CIA and Obama's special appointee head of the CIA, John Brennan. All of Obama's actions as President of the United States thus far certainly suggests that as a Muslim, he supports the stated goals and plans of the Brotherhood: COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF THE WEST.
FACT: There are currently six known American Islamist activist members of Obama's administration, Arif Alikhan, Rashad Hussain, Salam al-Marayati, Imam Mohamed Magid, Eboo Patel and most notably the head of the Dept. of Homeland Security Council, Mohammed Elibiary - who by the way openly supports the newly formed Caliphate and is on record for doing so, who are all Muslim Brotherhood supporters (operatives) who enjoy strong influence over U.S. policy as they were put there by Obama.
Time and space limits me here but there are several resources available for those who wish to do more research. Two I can immediately recommend: Ken Timmerman's new book, "Dark Forces, The Truth About What Happened In Benghazi" and "Western Journalism's" excellent YouTube videos - be sure to check out the ones entitled, "SHOCK CLAIM: Obama Is Behind the Islamic Caliphate!" and "Obama Could Be Facing 10 Years to Life in Prison" - (A Fox interview with Former Judge Andrew Napolitano showing how Barack Obama explicitly violated federal law, unlawfully spent federal money, illegally ignored Congress, illegally released terrorists and illegally financially “aided and abetted the enemy,” committed treason against the United States and therefore should be impeached and prosecuted.) Believe it or not, this is not "right-wing" propaganda. It is FACT.
Obama has succeeded in destroying our Constitution faster than any other president in history. He lies, he fails to enforce our borders, he spies on us, he sends the IRS after American citizens he doesn't like, he threatens lawmakers, he dismantles our military, he destroys our health care system, he bankrupts us by increasing our national debt from $12 trillion to $18 trillion, he increases welfare payments to nearly half the country, he carries a bogus Social Security number given to a dead man, he backdates his draft card showing he never registered in the first place, he produces a fake Photoshopped birth certificate because he doesn't have a legitimate U.S. one to show (which makes him ineligible to be president and is therefore illegitimate - a fact he has spent millions of dollars to hide), he seals all his records from high school, college and law school so no one can discover anything about his past or how he gained admission to Harvard and Columbia or where the money came from to pay for these expensive schools.
He creates Executive Orders to incarcerate those who oppose him, control all jobs, wages, transportation, messages to the people, limit citizen's rights to defend themselves against his tyranny and under "NDAA" has the ability to 'disappear' and even murder suspected political dissidents.
He's places 2700 Humvees in the hands of local police forces and positions hundreds of U.N. vehicles around the country along with hundreds of "resettlement camps, he purchases BILLIONS of rounds of hollow-point bullets - designed to completely obliterate a human being, he 'pink-slips' 260 high ranking military officers, he ruthlessly floods the border with hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens (with millions more to come), terrorists and God only knows who and who come here with a host of deadly contagious diseases while standing by idly and doing nothing.
So is it illogical to conclude Hussein Obama might very well be part of the group most dedicated to America's total destruction? Of course it is, it's all just a "right-wing conspiracy theory" - an unreasonable, highly illogical created 'bogeyman'. The crimes his administration has committed are so egregious, the consequences so catastrophic that any honest description of them just sounds "conspiratorial" to most politically uninformed people.
Just how do you envision to "make the case for liberty and freedom of conscious" and convince people their liberties are rapidly eroding and in grave danger of totally disappearing, when in fact they ARE rapidly eroding (right in front of their faces) and they can't say & do anything except "go to the polls?" When the 'brownshirts' show up on their doorstep is it finally time to "passively resist?" Unfortunately that day is coming for America, but it will be far too late then. How else can you make the case for liberty and the American ideal which must be embraced, championed, treasured and fought for, other than waking people up to the UGLY TRUTH about their government in the most honest and vivid way possible to challenge them to do something about it, NOW!? Kudos to Christian sister Sarah Palin, a true American patriot - Impeach Nero! Is she a right-wing fanatic? Yep! Is she confronting Nero head-on with his evil? Yep! Is she waking people up? Yep! There is no more so called 'middle ground' to operate from. No amount of pleasantries, party pandering and political pimping can help us at this point. We are too far gone as a nation.
I got a chuckle that you think we have a "viable means for civil redress through the current election process." Really? Please tell me you had been pounding down a few too many lagerheads prior to penning that statement. Do you actually believe that with all that the globalists have been able to accomplish over the last thirty years, with whom they've been able to install in leadership (you do know they control both political parties right?), with how they have been able to completely take over Congress and the Media, with what they are doing to financially destroy this country - that they are simply going to rollover and "disappear" to give Americans the luxury of a truly representative vote in future elections? Really? - especially given the fact of what happened with the last election - rigged electronic voting machines, millions of illegal votes and voters - over 1 million illegal votes in South Carolina alone. Are you unaware of what has happened to the mainstream MEDIA? Now do you want to talk about THE REAL CONSPIRACY?!
Even if elections were valid it wouldn't make any difference anyway. 50% of American Christians don't even vote! 75% of the remaining 50% are so politically ignorant they do far more damage by going to the polls - better to just keep them home.
Want to know why 535 congressmen/women have done nothing - not taken ONE SINGLE legislative action to rectify the 27 impeachable crimes the current Usurper In Chief of our Government has committed? I'll tell you why - they have either all been bought off by the globalists or threatened with their lives as John Roberts was (Supreme Court) who happened to "just change his mind at the last minute" to vote for Obamacare). And you think we have the possibility of positively changing the direction of the country through elections with this brood of thieves, crooks & vipers? Really? Don't be surprised if we don't even have an election in 2016. It will depend on whether the Globalists feel they have their "Blue and Red" puppets in place they want to have. Maybe Obama will create a new Executive Order declaring himself, KING! But this is all just more right-wing conspiracy talk, right?
“No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders.” Samuel Adams
“The liberties of our country, the freedoms of our civil Constitution are worth defending at all hazards; it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors. They purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood. It will bring a mark of everlasting infamy on the present generation – enlightened as it is – if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of designing men.” Samuel Adams
I don't think you need waste any more of your time on this matter. You did very well with your last response. Proverbs 14:7
I won't waste another minute . . . Guys like this need to be right and never realize how foolish they sound.
Well it was fun while it lasted...won't battle you for the "last word." I guess until you show me where my information and analysis are wrong, I'll be condemned to my chronic state of "foolishness." Cheers...