Jihad Against the Apple Store?
Wednesday, October 11, 2006 at 11:47AM 
According to an article in TheRegister (UK) (Click here: Apple's NY Fifth Avenue store is an 'insult to Islam' | The Register), the Apple Store on Fifth Avenue in New York, is an offence to Muslims because it looks too much like the sacred ka'ba in Mecca. You gotta be kidding????
Oh, and while we are speaking of Islamic outrage, the advertisements on TheRegister website (UK), listed this little gem: Islamic ringtones for your cell (Click here: RingRingMobile - Get Your Ringtone and Bonus Tones Now!). Now you can hear "death to America" whenever you want!
I wonder if the sponsor of these ringtones knew that a fatwa had been issued against them by a Saudi cleric? I guess not. (Click here: Riddleblog - The Latest Post - A Fatwa I Can Understand!
Reader Comments (42)
And I'm sure Steve Job and Apple were considering nothing other than trying to offend Muslims everywhere when they approved of this translucent artwork!
Mac users will now hesitate to go on pilgrimage to Manhattan to pay homage to "Apple".
What's next, I wonder?
As an elect of God, what do I have to worry about from these infidels who have rejected God's grace?
Not that Apple is in any way Christian, but this is simply silly and another example of Islamic Facism.
Again, as God's elect, we must not let these people intimidate us in any way. What do we have to fear from anyone when we are walking in obedience to our Lord?
In Christ
Mike Ratliff
Somebody's pattern detection is cranked way too high.
...any building that is in the shape of a cube is an offence to the Ka'ba!
Its a good thing that the Louvre isn't an offence to the Great Pyramids and Ra!
http://www.louvre.fr/llv/musee/alaune.jsp?
bmLocale=en
or...maybe it is...
The day after he was on Dateline the chats, blog and groups that I belong to was all in a buzz. In a buzz not on what Mr Horton said on Dateline but in a buzz about Mike Horton and the MAC. Whoo Hooo!
Timotheus
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I must be honest, isn't this all a bit of a cheap shot ?
Also I am sure that there are any number of 'Christian' ring tone vendors - our friend 'purgatorio', I'm sure would help us here.
As you are more than aware with evangelicalism and beyond - there are plenty of things muslims can beat us with... Jesus dolls anyone ? Hugo Chavez should be assassinated ?
I am a reformation Christian in the UK, who is a big White Horse Inn fan (I recommend it whenever I can). I also work in one of the most Muslim areas of the UK. On Fridays parking by work is very difficult - as we are next to possibly the largest mosque in the UK).
I listened to your recent programme on Islam (part 1) and didn't find it very helpful for day to day witness and life.
Whilst the brother who was interviewed, may have been consulted by the UK parliament - for a future programme, someone like Thabiti from Pure Church blog - would be alot more helpful for us in encouraging informed witness to muslims in our communities.
I agree the Koran says all kinds of things which we don't like and islam is potentially very imperialistic - but the muslim people I meet day to day - aren't about to seek to take over the world....
Colin
Mikey! :-) Smile when you say that pardner! I love my MAC. It is the first computer I have ever had that does what I want instead of doing whatever it pleases behind my back.
In Christ
Mike Ratliff
You sound like you've got your work cut-out for you! May God uphold you as your stand for The Faith.
Here is a link to our Academy class about Islam. Professor Samples offers a fine approach to understanding and communicating with Muslims.
http://www.christreformedinfo.squarespace.com/the-latest-news/2006/9/30/ken-samples-academy-class-on-real-audio-amd-mp3.html
God Bless
That's when I saw the apple.
And though I expect the tree of life to be in the new Jerusalem (Rev. 22:2), I sure didn't expect to see an apple in it - especially the one out of which Adam & Eve took that bite!
So I guess we're in "this age" after all ... awaiting "the age to come."
Yes, we're still in this present evil age ... the one characterized by the Muslim hatred, Islamic outrage and Saudi fatwas mentioned by KR.
It makes me glad that this present age is temporal ... and that the age to come is both eternal AND perfect!
No hatred, outrage or fatwas in the new heavens and earth!
(And no 1000 years to endure between this age and the age to come!)
Are you sure?
This is in no way to get political but simply to make a point with regard to Colin's post:
The recent "scandal" in Capitol Hill with regard to Congressman Foley was responded to by that beloved figure Pat Robertson by saying, "Well, that's what gay people do." The point, evidently, was that gay people (Foley has publically admitted as much) take advantage of young children. While this may take place (just as much as frustrated hetero's might act deviantly), it should be obvious to discerning readers that this sort of caricature has many gaps.
Ok, so what's the point already?
I think Colin's point, right or wrong, is that when a muslim "tosses a grenade into a crowd of bystanders" it seems quite slipshod to say, "Well, that's Islam and muslims for you...that's what they do." It's one thing to "go after" a system, but quite another to go after real people. I believe, for example, that Evangelicalism is the greatest threat to the American church, but Evangelicals ought not be unduly caricatured (as sometimes happens here). I think perhaps that was the point of his post. It's not that muslims *are not* capable of violence or any other deviant behavior; by his own correct admission "islam is potentially very imperialistic." The point was simply that from his own realistic experience it isn't always the case that muslims are on the prowl to "take over the world or eat your kids" (a tone and tenor also sometimes implied here).
I think he may have missed the real thrust of the post as well, though. I think it's a good natured poke at how religion and pop culture make odd bedfellows! How a Buddhist monk can sell Kleenex and Christianity find a forum on tee shirts can only happen in a world devoid of any sense of the sacred.
Polythene Pam
We're citizens of heaven, but we live in this world as well. Paying attention to jihad is a smart thing to do. Not all Muslims are violent, but look at the polls coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan: they support violence against us even when we try to help them. They're commanded by their Quran to take up arms against the infidel (Surah 9:29).
Here's a good read for everyone trying to understand jihad in it's historical and juridical context:
http://www.amazon.com/Legacy-Jihad-Islamic-Holy-Non-Muslims/dp/1591023076/sr=8-1/qid=1160677604/ref=sr_1_1/103-3710243-4339829?ie=UTF8&s=books
Just some quick observations. It goes without saying that one may be free to disagree:
1. Consider these sources. Conversion to Christianity does not magically transform any person. These converts may bring with them at least some measure of fanaticism and import them into their Christian paradigms. And inasmuch as Islam is tied to culture because they make no distinction between cult and culture (something western Christianity, however sloppily, tries to do), middle eastern culture is very tied up in political struggle, etc., and alarmism seems to come with the territiory.
2. Horton et al make comparisons themselves to American Evangelicalism and Islam.
3. The point of the comparison looks to have been lost here. It was not make substantive comparisons but a comparison of faulty thinking: just because a sytem is in error doesn't mean justify caricature of those who subscribe to it.
4. There are many tributaries feeding into why muslims in the ME are turning to Jihad, I would think: war, displacement, poverty and just general global and local unrest. Certainly Islam has a template to justify elevated attack, but to lay it all at the feet of Islam seems not a little myopic.
5. We all should have some level of awareness in all these things, given the sort of world we all inhabit. But if we truly believe that both our culture and religion are superior to the other side of the table, we ought to be able to rise above mere tribalism and jump at any chance to demonize. And I think there is much that tends that way here in a lot of these postings. Our day isn't simplistic and easy; it's very complicated.
6. When you asked Colin if he was sure his neighbors aren't secretly gathering and plotting his demise it revealed the sort of paranoia that seems unuseful, that's all. Certainly there are plenty of elements in the world that are plotting as much and do so from an explicitly Islamic template. But it just seems sophomoric and something out of the movies to suggest a reality we all know is just not true.
PP
4. I'm not even concerned about jihadists in the middle east. The UK has been a breeding ground for these nuts, and not because they're suffering from poverty, war, or tribalism. Far from being myopic, blame needs to be assigned where it's due. Muslims are allowed to deceive non-believers when it suits Islam. This is what's taking place in the West. There is no golden rule in Islam. Moreover, the Muslims in the UK are there because of religion of Islam ruining there home countries. Islam is its own civilization, and not a successful one.
6. If what you say is true, why did they just apprehend a dozen potential hijackers in the UK? Terrorism is, by its very nature, secretly plotting the demise of your neighbor. Isn't terrorism based on the operation of clandestine cells within a host country to bring about mayhem and destruction? Aren't all of the terrorists lately Islamic?
Walt asked if I am sure that muslims I know are not plotting world domination ?
Well if I'm completely honest, I couldn't be certain. But then I don't know about the neighbours in my street ... nor my work colleagues and come to think of it, my wife and daughter went out together earlier today,without me and I couldn't be sure if they went to the swimming pool or to a secret meeting of the illuminati.
I think there are three discussions here, which I think often get confused. There is a discussion about foreign policy, one about how our governments manage the risk of islamic terrorism and a discussion about how we relate to our muslim neighbours and colleagues. I am just about the last.
Now I do think Walt's comments about the views on violence of those in Iraq and Afganistan demonstrated this confusion - I never mentioned other countries - but he moved swifty to them from my comments about my neighbours.
And if Islam is so inherantly imperialistic, how come Saudia Arabia, Jordan, Qatar etc aren't invading other countries ?
Now Dr Solomons is a fantastic expert on islam, and knows more in his little finger than I will know in my life time ... but this didn't appear to be the typical islam of those born in the UK / US, who fast at Ramadan, who I meet, many of whom probably cannot understand the Arabic of the Koran.
Of course there are some extreme elements - who must be dealt with by the rule of law, but I am not seeing a great drift that way. In fact I see the opposite - muslim young men are the fasted growing population in our prisons,
Also certain muslim communities do the worst in school and have some of the highest unemployment rates.
Now what has the church done, well we evacuated those neighbourhoods !!!
I just read David Wells 'Above all Earthly Powers', who spoke of the tremendous opportunity we have because of immigration to reach those from closed countries to the gospel.
We can easily throw stones, but move into the neighbourhoods and love and proclaim the gospel ???
Colin
Are you from the UK ?
Colin
Well if I'm completely honest, I couldn't be certain. But then I don't know about the neighbours in my street ... nor my work colleagues and come to think of it, my wife and daughter went out together earlier today,without me and I couldn't be sure if they went to the swimming pool or to a secret meeting of the illuminati."
I think you know your wife and kids. Your neighbors, are they Muslim?
"Now I do think Walt's comments about the views on violence of those in Iraq and Afganistan demonstrated this confusion - I never mentioned other countries - but he moved swifty to them from my comments about my neighbours.
And if Islam is so inherantly imperialistic, how come Saudia Arabia, Jordan, Qatar etc aren't invading other countries ?"
Weren't some of the muhajideen in Afghanistan who were fighting the Russians from Saudi Arabia? Weren't most of the 9/11 hijackers from Saudi Arabia? Don't Saudi royals use their money to sponsor the Muslim Brotherhood and other Sunni terrorist groups worldwide (including Al-Queda)? Wasn't Abu Musab al-Zarqawi a Jordanian Sunni terrorist member of Al-Queda in Iraq?
What do you mean by "invading other countries"? It seems to be pretty common, in this days of pan-Islamic terrorism. I mention other countries because inter-migration of terrorists between different countries and to Western countries is commonplace. Also, Muslims are called upon to help the jihad wherever it is. This has a documented historical and theological precedent. This isn't some weird conspiracy theory - it's in the open press.
No, I'm not from the UK.