Did Anybody Else Watch This?
Tuesday, December 26, 2006 at 11:02AM 
It is the custom in our home that on Christmas morning I get up early, build a rip-roaring fire, make the coffee, and get ready for the family Christmas (which I celebrate with my wife and two sons).
While I was enjoying the fire and waiting for the sleepy-heads to get up (we were all zonked from our Christmas Eve service and a late night at my mother-in-laws', and my sons just finished up their finals, so they were pretty fried), I made the mistake of turning on the TV. I had heard about recent terrorist threats, so I wanted to check the news. I turned on Fox news only to see Rick Warren at Saddleback.
Did anyone else see this? It was absolutely awful. Apparently, I've misunderstood the meaning of Christmas. I thought it had something to do with the Incarnation and with Jesus coming to save me from my sins. No, Jesus came to give me purpose and to give Rick Warren slogans. Warren did not preach from a text. He repeatedly turned gospel into law. He spoke in clichés and referred to his "peace" plan over and over. It was the worst bunch of self-promotion in a pulpit I have ever seen. Don't even start me on the "worship service," or whatever that abomination was . . .
And no, my objections are not that of the typical cranky Reformed guy looking down his nose on evangelicals. There was no "evangel" at all. Even the liberal Episcopalians doing "Lessons and Carols" (which I watched before I went to bed on Christmas Eve) came closer to the gospel and the true meaning of Christmas than did Warren, the "Bible-believing" evangelical pastor. It was awful . . .
I hope Fox news sticks with the news and doesn't ever do this again. I reluctantly turned on CNN and then gave thanks that terrorists did not attack.
After I turned off the TV in disgust, we enjoyed our family Christmas! No thanks to Rick Warren and Fox news.
Reader Comments (97)
The New Testament (Acts 17 - a good example) says nothing about the messengers of the Gospel being "relevant." Thank God the Apostle Paul wasn't "relevant" at the Areopogus.
I will pray that God has mercy on your flock.
Robin
Warren is getting less and less defensible with each passing day. For crying out loud, he went to Syria and praised Syria's 'religious tolerance' towards Christians. Then he lied and spun it. Too bad we've got audio evidence of it though: http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53502
Next, he had Barack Obama speak about AIDS from his pulpit. Barack Obama, of course, supports abortion. Even late term abortions.
Now this. Salvation? Salvation from what? We need a definition of terms here.
What more evidence does it take that Warren's a self-promoting bad apple? Come off it, man.
But if he is real, how sad it would be. People who are hurting turn on the TV and hear moral platitudes and a list of things to do to feel better about themselves. When the steps are followed and the program completed, these hurting people think they are right with God. After all, the hurt is gone.
Also they don't have the denomination listed after "Reformed", but have "unspecified".
Has anybody else seen any "Reformed" churches on that list?
Mark
I saw one PCUSA congregation. Does that count?
I'm mostly seeing Pentacostal, generic evangelical, and the occational Methodist church. Did see one Old Catholic church (had to look that one up).
Here is the Alumni Church Finder for all churches subscribed to PD. Reformed is #6. Amongst the denoms are: Catholic, Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, Reformed, Congregational, Weslayan, Presbyterian...
http://www.purposedriven.com/en-US/SearchResults.htm?term=Alumni+Churches&category=Campaigns
This search-engine sorts all PD trained churches by either name, location or zip.
http://www.purposedriven.com/en-US/40DayCampaigns/PurposeDrivenChurches/AlumniSponsorship.htm
Churches that have completed PD curriculum ("alumni") are encouraged to reach-out and sponsor other CHURCHES and are offered benefits from the PD company to do so! (The "alumni" churches are charged more money to be allowed this "blessing".)
Cha-ching!
Sadly, my PCA church in Marco is on that list.
walt, i will proceed not as one who has his dukes up or wanting to get into a fight but...so?
i am *absolutely* no defender of the likes of warren. (i saw him on both fox and meet the press and thought he was predictably just awful--awful.) but those that constantly bring up the obama episode never seem to remember that dear rick had republican sam brownback at center stage one week prior. isn't that a problem as well? or is it only a problem when a rodeo clown like warren invites those with politics that are counter one's own? it seems to me that rick gets the rap for intertwining religion with only *certain* politics and not with others.
i also wonder why abortion is so important. i once asked an evangelical who said, "christians ought to be fighting against the horrors of abortion," a simple question: why? he seemed squarely taken aback. all he could come up with was, "well...because it's wrong." but so are a lot of things that don't comport nicely with a narrow band of cultural values or politics, yet evangelicals remain strangely quiet. so certain things demand our attention and we are somehow beholden to fix them? since when?
of course, one could take the warren route and say we are beholden to fix all sorts of problems, problems that transcend all sorts of cultural values and politics: abortion AND AIDS. all the warren route does is accept the notion that we are about fixing the world (old school Liberalism) and simply proclaiming the unfettered gospel as purely as we can. the Church gets overloaded, naturally, because her mission ii snow to fix the world.
so...so what that obama supports abortion? that's not the problem. the problem is the wrong-headed notion that God is on any side of politics or particular issues. the problem is that sacred and secular lines are not at all properly drawn and run roughshod over. warren represents an evangelicalism that has picked up where the old Liberals did.
zrim
"Children in third grade and above who have not yet joined the church are welcome to attend a kid's church time just for them during the second half of the service as well."
"Kid's church time" (translation: Fun and Games!).
"You will notice that everyone is dressed comfortably, in everything from "church clothes" to "office casual" to jeans and sneakers. If you arrive early, feel free to help yourself to coffee or a snack at our refreshment table or to browse our information table."
Typical Saddleback "worship" event. I'm sure they also don't mind coffee and snacks DURING their "worship service."
"The service usually begins with music followed by a time of welcome where we shake hands with those around us. Following this we will have some music led by our worship team, some additional Scripture readings and a message. The message will be based on the Bible and will relate the ancient text to our daily life in some way. You will hear solid Christian teaching made relevant to your daily life."
Typical happy-clappy "worship": sing a lot, read one or two verses, and here comes the "relevant" moralistic "message" (no, not sermon) from the "pastor."
"Following the service we hope you will stay and meet some people as you join us for some snacks at the refreshment table. You are also invited to join us for a "Second Hour." During the Second Hour, we have smaller group gatherings devoted to the discussion of a particular portion of the Bible or topic. They are also great opportunities to get to know a few people better. A full program for all children is offered during this time as well."
They never get tired of coffee and snacks. I wonder if they talk about "The Peace Plan" in the "Second Hour."
"Full program" for the kids (translation: Fun and Games!).
"We hope you will stop by this weekend."
Worship is "stopping by"?
PCAs: The "Man of Sin" is in your churches! Why do you go to churches like these?
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He's kinda like a Mafia don giving his blessing to two of his lieutenants. Yeah, he shouldn't have had Sam Brownback up there either. He shouldn't be getting involved in politics, period.
Your point about abortion is curious. The job of government is to punish wrongdoers. Murder is one of the things government should punish, right? Just because the babies are still in the womb doesn't mean they're not alive. Instead, our government gives it's blessing to the murder of babies. It also violates Genesis 9:6.
We, as Christians, do have some duty to be involved in culture. I think this article gives a good Reformed position on the issue:
http://www.kerux.com/documents/KeruxV11N1A4.asp
Darren,
I think if everyone on this blog who saw the program feels that Warren butchered the Gospel and you don't, maybe you should introspect. It has been difficult keeping up with Warren's exploits lately, but still possible. He is no minister of the Gospel.
I'll tell you so what... Think about it this way: Obama, who ardently supports killing babies, spoke from the pulpit of a very influential "evangelical" church. Would it be okay for Warren to have the grand master of the KKK or Osama bin Laden speak from his pulpit--for a "good" cause??? Would that be acceptable to you?
I don't consider myself to be a Republican or a Democrat, so the political labels don't matter all that much to me--but God's morals mean a lot to me. Like the Good Book says, "Bad company corrupts good morals."
Mr. Sapp, if you could give us a straight, full quotation of Mr. Warren's "presentation of the Gospel," I'm sure we'd all be grateful. It's hard to repent based on someone's unsubstantiated assertions.
Anybody, in fact, please link us a transcript.
And Mr. Sapp, you'd better pray, pray, pray that Mr. Warren preached the WHOLE Gospel--not just the feel-good parts or the convenient parts. I mean, all the way out to "dead in our sins," "none good but God," "Jesus died for you and BECAUSE of you," and "repent and turn away from your sins." Anything less is only a half-truth--which is the same as a lie. You wouldn't want to be defending a lie, would you?
We left our Free Methodist church in June over Purpose Driven issues before I even knew what it really was. I just had that "sense" about it, that it was wrong. Now seeing them listed on the peace plan list has convinced me even more that we did the right thing.
However, we are having a terrible time finding someplace that even begins to appeal to us. We aren't quite the fundamentalist type, but we sure are no longer fond of evangelical churches.
I just can't believe the number of pastors that have fallen for Warrenism, hook, line and sinker.
I'm going to throw in my two-cents' worth on your statement: "...so what that obama supports abortion? that's not the problem. the problem is the wrong-headed notion that God is on any side of politics or particular issues."
You miss the point. We have no part with hypocrites--people who profess one thing and yet hold to another. Sen. Obama believes that only a select few people have a God-given right to draw breath--and that it is completely contingent on the will of some other person, namely the mother (hence his opposition to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act). This is, as you can see, NOT a Christian attitude. He also attends a very racist, egocentric church (it's on the Internet). Again, NOT a Christian attitude. Can a person supposedly indwelt by the Most High and Holy God truly hold to these beliefs?
Yes, God is DEFINITELY on one side or the other of particular issues; the whole Bible is FULL of "particular issues" on which He states His position (murder, adultery, theft, charity, life, violence, etc.). Go have another read of it, my friend.