This Will Pack 'Em In!
Wednesday, February 7, 2007 at 02:01PM 
Looking for a way to pack people into your church? How about this? Porn and Pancakes!
According to an article on wcbstv (Click here: wcbstv.com - Upstate NY Church Hosts 'Porn And Pancakes' Event) . . .
"(AP) ONTARIO, N.Y. It's not your typical church breakfast.
An event billed as `Porn and Pancakes' is being hosted by a church in rural upstate New York. The breakfast discussion on the pornography industry in America is planned next month at the Living Word Assembly of God Church in the town of Ontario, in rural Wayne County about ten miles east of Rochester. A billboard advertisement near the church shows the words `Porn and Pancakes' written in syrup on a stack of flapjacks. Organizers said the Feb. 10 event will be an honest discussion about pornography and its impact on society. The discussion will be led by XXX Church, a group of youth ministers who travel the country talking about porn and the porn industry. The pastor of the Wayne County church said that churches from Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse have asked about also hosting `Porn and Pancakes' events."
And you thought I was kidding . . . This one is so bad it is hard to say anything in reply. Before anyone has a cow, the picture comes from the wcbstv website reporting on the event.
Looks to me like a "bait and switch" operation of the first order. And just what will the pastor say to all the sweet little old ladies and curious teens and their angry parents in his church? I guess they just have to put up with this so the church can "reach out."
I give up . . .
Reader Comments (61)
Anonymous2 and Anonymous,
Hi guys. I'm a reformed Christian. I know exactly what you are going through.
It starts out, you're just checking your email. Then you see some ad with some picture of Halle Berry or something. You think, man, she's hot. Then your mind starts to wander. Before you know it, you're on a porn site and you don't even know how you got there. You want to escape, but you can't look away. You want to just shut it off, but you can't do it. You can't do it because there is something so comfortable, so pleasant, so comforting in looking at those pictures.
When it's all over, you hate yourself. You cry out to God, "WHY?!" But there is no answer. You are enslaved to sin, and you cannot find a way out.
You'd love to go confess to your pastor and seek help, but you're afraid that he'll judge you, like some of the unwise souls on this blog have only helped to underscore. If you're married, you'd love to tell your wife and get it off your chest, but you're afraid that she'll make a big deal out of it, judge you, tell you how horrible you are, and she'll never let you forget it. It will ALWAYS be a wedge between you, and you just can't bear it. You can't take the look in her eyes that you are sure to get.
If you're not married, you're thinking that perhaps if you were married, you'd have a way out. If only you had a legal outlet for your lust, it would no longer be a problem. If only you had a wife to have and to hold, to comfort you when you're lonely, to help you through those hard times. But you don't, so in weakness, you turn to porn.
But you cannot tell anyone. You dare not. Anyone you tell would immediately judge you and condemn you. Your pastor would probably think you aren't a true believer, and maybe you're even questioning whether or not you're a true believer. How could anyone accept that a true believer could POSSIBLY do such a thing?
Well guess what? You're not alone. There are far more men in even REFORMED churches who have struggled at one time or another with porn on the internet than those who haven't. The ones who haven't are in the minority. I guarantee it.
Who are you kidding, Christian, who judges others?
You see, many Christians are quick to say things like, "You just need to grow up and realize what you're doing is wrong. Stop it." Thanks, that's helpful. Pppbbbttt!!! Raspberries to you, because you haven't helped anyone! Where in the Bible, tell me, does it say that the cure for sin is to simply realize it's wrong and grow up? So we can sanctify ourselves now, can we? Our hope is in the law?
Guys, you are not alone.
Your guilt over your porn problem actually drives you back to the porn, because you cannot find any other comfort anywhere. That's why it feels so pleasant and comforting when you look at the pictures. It eases your guilt. Porn is like a sympathetic person, who holds you and comforts you, strokes your head and tells you, "Sshhhh...everything will be ok. I love you."
My friends, it's a lie. Porn seeks to destroy and kill you. It seeks your very life. The comfort that porn offers is false comfort.
Here is the truth of what has happened to you. You have made porn into an idol. You have fallen down and worshiped it as if it were God himself. You have not sought God's forgiveness for your sin, because your idol finds no fault in you. You have allowed digital pictures of naked women to be your judge rather than God. You have forgotten who God is, and sought to put something else in his place. You have worshiped the creature rather than the Creator.
And you are no different than any human being on this planet.
Calvin said that our hearts are idol factories. This is exactly what he meant.
There is only one cure for your idolatrous enslavement.
God is your judge. He has judged your idolatry to be wicked and sinful. You have violated the first two commandments as well as the 7th, and probably the 9th as well by lying about it.
God says that you have failed to worship him, that you have worshiped idols, and that you have committed adultery, you have lied, and all the rest of it.
But God doesn't tell you to grow up as a fix for your sin problem.
Instead, he sent his Son to die on the cross to fix your sin problem.
Just stop and think about that a moment. Remember the story of Abraham and Isaac, how God told Abraham to sacrifice his son on the altar to God? Do you remember how you felt when you first heard that story, perhaps you were astonished that God could ask such a great thing of Abraham? Do you remember thinking that that would be a terribly difficult thing for Abraham to do?
But Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son to God. One could argue that this was just. One COULD argue that.
But when God sent his Son, he didn't owe us anything. It wasn't just at all for God to give up his Son to die for us. God did it because he loved us, not because he owed it to us. We didn't do anything to earn God's love. In fact, we did everything to try to prevent it! Just look at how idolatrous we all are! We have all sinned in our hearts, which is hatred towards God. We HATED him, we were his enemies! And yet he still loved us and sent his Son to die for people who secretly look at porn when no one is looking.
Confess your sinfulness to God. Confess that you are at the end of your rope. Confess that you cannot save yourself, nor make yourself one iota less sinful. Confess your sinful deeds to someone, anyone when you have done this.
The Bible says to confess our sins to one another. Don't fear someone else's judgment. it is meaningless anyway.
There is only one Judge. GOD. No one else's judgment means anything.
And God says that there is NO CONDEMNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus.
So go and tell your pastor or someone, maybe one of your elders, what you have done. Ask them to help you. That's their JOB as ministers of the gospel and shepherds of God's people. You are God's people if you are in his church. Your pastor and elders owe you their loving, careful, patient guidance. They owe that to you, because that is what God has charged them with doing. God holds them responsible to help you.
So go to them and beg their help. Repent. They will help you.
Do you know what the one thing is that makes porn the hardest to quit? It's that you keep it a secret. So you harbor a secret guilt that no one knows about. Your only comfort is to indulge your sin all the more. When you are looking at porn is probably just about the only time you don't feel guilty about it. Think about that.
You have sought comfort and forgiveness for your sins in porn.
Repent and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, our only hope for salvation.
And get the blocker software on your internet. I have it on mine. Just remember that this doesn't get to the root of the problem.
I recommend Safe Eyes or Content Protect. Both are great. Both will send an email to someone every time you try to go to a blocked site.
This is a very effective tool - but it is only a tool - because it prevents you from being able to hide your sin in secrecy. Secrecy is your worst enemy right now.
Go and tell someone, anyone. But first confess to God. He already knows anyway.
Echo
echo_473442 at yahoo dot com (send me an email, we'll talk).
Your elders are there to help you. If they lord their authority over you, then they're bad elders. They have to answer to God for their stewardship on the Last Day. The best thing seems to be to confide to one of them your problem. That's why Christ instituted church discipline - to help sanctify Christians!
Expose the sin to light. There's nothing to fear. If your elders blow you off, go to the pastor or go to another church and try again.
We should all pray for these guys.
It is also refreshing to hear Zrim's take on the matter. (I don't think he's saying just "grow up and stop it.") I think he means the bottom line in counsel is to admonish men to act like Christians because of what Christ has already done. Apostle Paul style, no less. In other words, it is the Gospel that enables us to prevail over temptation...not the Law. This is biblical.
I also like Echo's exhortation to go and confess/rely on the counsel of pastor's and elders. I add to that, go for it, guys! Reaching-out and seeking help from God ordained men is as easy as it is for most men to ask for directions or taking initiative in seeing their doctor. Worse, if it involves confessions of egregious sin.
Even "Christian" counseling can be tainted with the therapeutic catechism: "feelings are neither right or wrong...they just ARE." This is at the heart of psychology's misguided solutions.
Another reason why the only true hope is in God's ordained means of intervention.
I do appreciate the advice, but I really appreciate the Gospel...I am really floored right now....thank you...(it's hard to convey emotion over the internet!)
I prefer a tried and true method: "God chose the foolishness of preaching to save those who would believe." (1 Cor 1:21)
what i simply cannot swallow is the interlaced therapeutic when such discussions come up. i don't understand how on the one hand we can be so intolerant of how the therapeutic has invaded the church yet soft-peddle it when it comes to something we men find so tempting.
i realize that my view is largely not tolerated. but i will continue to hold my line. i think we men have really done a number on society at large and even more particulary to women. we have preyed on the latter's natural inclination to nurture and be understanding, etc. and i would say to women, "don't be fooled by our wiles."
i also depart from the apparent tendencies to simply demonize pornography and fear-monger people away from it. no, this is not a defense of a social evil. but way too often i hear diatribes against certain things like this in order for men to simply beat their chests and demosntrates just how foul they think this stuff is. ok...we get it, guy. it's bad stuff. now chill out a bit and lay off the railing for a moment and engage the topic a bit more substantively. i think the same can be said for most social evils in general and how many christians want to publically display their disdain.
speaking of display, i must also say that i find the "bare-all," so to speak, of some postings here not to comport with the confessional ethic of self-control over self-expression. i find the tendency to self-display in such manners unbecoming and a not a little disturbing. sorry. i know that will be booed as well.
i hope that what i say is not misunderstood as to not comprt well with the Law/Gospel categories. as i said, i find all forms of bootstrap moralism an enemy of the Gospel (yeah, you, dr. phil!). christians who gravitate toward this stuff have some serious contemplating to do. robin is correct that i want to maintain that POV...like i said, i will stick a copy of the HB in my girls' backpocket before i ever consider sending them (or allowing them) to any boorish silver ring party. i do not say what i say as a moralist, not one iota.
that said, i also find the tendency to *therapeut* as repugnant as the tendency to moralize. to me, these are the dominant impulses in cult and culture today. and, quite simply, i hate these impulses gravely. similtaneously, i think there is valid place for honest addiction and legit forms of therapy. i don't want to throw thr baby out with the bathwater and simply throw bibles at people or inane gospel-ese. but a line has to be drawn somewhere.
as a fellow man, i sympathize with another man's hard wiring. it is no mystery to me why men act in the ways they do so often. and maybe it's just the way men interact with each other, i dunno. but i just think there is a place for cold, hard common sense, guys. my wife tells me all the time how i get manipulated by my girls and she sees right through their tendencies to display themselves as weak in order to get away with something (and, oy! how it works!). so i am saying the same thing to my fellow men: quit vying for a sympathy, quit coddling yourselves, quit victimizing yourself.
further, what does the tendency to therapeut do to our categories of discipline? how does the tendency to therapeut offenders amongst us instead of discipline make us hypocrites to the oitside world, where we constantly wag our bony little fingers at those "nasty pagans" yet find endless grace for our own? 1 cor 5 ring a bell for anyone?
again, i know most will by-pass my post because i am seen as harsh here. but, frankly, i have had it up to here with how so many in our day coddle themselves and own up less and less to their failings and call a spade a spade. how will you ever relish the gospel if you don't bend the knee to the law?
zrim
zrim
Zrim,
I'm curious.
You said:
"so i am saying the same thing to my fellow men: quit vying for a sympathy, quit coddling yourselves, quit victimizing yourself."
I was just wondering what the moralism what that you think should be avoided, because after reading this line - assuming it wasn't moralistic in your mind - I no longer know what you mean by moralism, because I would consider this a moralistic response to sin.
Echo
The Value of Wisdom
My son, if you receive my words
and treasure up my commandments with you,
making your ear attentive to wisdom
and inclining your heart to understanding;
yes, if you call out for insight
and raise your voice for understanding,
if you seek it like silver
and search for it as for hidden treasures,
then you will understand the fear of the LORD
and find the knowledge of God.
For the LORD gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding;
he stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
he is a shield to those who walk in integrity,
guarding the paths of justice
and watching over the way of his saints.
Then you will understand righteousness and justice
and equity, every good path;
for wisdom will come into your heart,
and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul;
discretion will watch over you,
understanding will guard you,
delivering you from the way of evil,
from men of perverted speech,
who forsake the paths of uprightness
to walk in the ways of darkness,
who rejoice in doing evil
and delight in the perverseness of evil,
men whose paths are crooked,
and who are devious in their ways.
So you will be delivered from the forbidden woman,
from the adulteress with her smooth words,
who forsakes the companion of her youth
and forgets the covenant of her God;
for her house sinks down to death,
and her paths to the departed;
none who go to her come back,
nor do they regain the paths of life.
So you will walk in the way of the good
and keep to the paths of the righteous.
For the upright will inhabit the land,
and those with integrity will remain in it,
but the wicked will be cut off from the land,
and the treacherous will be rooted out of it.
(continue to chapter 3, 4 and 5...)
yeah, i appreciate your call here. let's see if i can help it out a bit.
when i make the call to quit coddling oneself i mean to consider one's sin through a clear-eyed consideration of the categories of law, of sin. that is, lay down your excuses and your attempts to explain away your sin. admit that you know right from wrong and that you chose wrong. just give up giving us reasons for why you did what you did and own up to the consequences. i know many here say they say this, but they also want to attach to it doctrines of therapy. but the latter doctrines mitigate against the former doctrines necessarily. they immediately rush in to explain or justify sin and think that is ok because they have given us the figurehead nod about all that sin and grace stuff.
moralism, as i consider it, implores sinners to fix themselves in order to gain a prize. it looks forward and depends on human might. the gospel implores sinners to look to another for their redemption, and it looks backward in gratitude, and it has absolutely no hope in human might but only in God's. the only thing that motivates a christian to do that which he knows is right is the finished work of Christ on his behalf. he is now a slave to righeousness; he must live accordingly. he must be ready to get kicked in the teeth for doing right, whereas the moralist sells him on the idea that all will go well for the sinner if he just follows the rules. the world makes very little sense to one sold on moralism when the nice, neat package of rules never seems to work out. it makes perfect sense to the christian since he has not been sold a package of goods, presuming he has been given the pure gospel and not a moralistic one (which is hard to come by in american religion). it makes sense to receive ill for good and to get away with one's sin, because the gospel is contra worldly understanding.
i can see where my line could very easily be interpreted as a form of moralism because that's something moralists say. but a moralist has a whole different set of assumptions and expectations than a christian does.
dr. phil is a moralist. our culture is moralistic. our church is moralistic.
i will reiterate something i have tried, albeit feebly, to get across. i think there are two different camps. in the one camp, we have persons who have valid behavioral problems, and they can manifest themselves in various ways: eating disorders, bad sexual choices, etc. they tend to have various behavioral issues that have deeper roots to them that must be uncovered by professional treatment. the legit problem can manifest itself in various ways. people with legit behavioral problems often have multiple issues with which to deal and it is simply more than spending too much time on certain internet sites. legit problems usually affect various facets of one's life, and it isn't simply about liking sex and food too much. we all do. but real problems like food or sex addiction are about more than food or sex.
in the other camp, are people who simply love food or sex, etc. and they simply refuse to control themselves and just gorge their appetitites. they want to be counted as those in the first camp in order to gain symapthy and excuse for their behaviors. but if they had a real problem they would be doing more than installing silly software and getting accountability partners. drug addicts and bulemics do more than set up juvenile tools to take care of serious problems--they seek professional help. so if guys who are simply acting the way guys want to act want to count themselves as persons who have legit problems they need to do more than invoke these silly tools and get to a professional. but my hunch when i hear them is that they are simply issues of self-control, red-blooded guys who have diminished their ability to self-control and want the luxaries afforded folks who honestly have problems. and i say they give those poor souls a black eye and insult their legit problems.
zrim
i think we must keep in mind that scripture itself never gives up on the imperatives. the imperatives in scripture are after a whole different aspect than the imperatives in natural law. but that doesn't mean we can't join with natural men in holding natural men accountable for their actions.
i guess i continue to think in two distinct spheres: creational and redemptive and the fact that we as believers (only) inhabit both. i read confesisonalism to champion a wholly world-affirming category (see horton's God of promise, chapter...6, i think?). the world is not, as pietism and fundamentalism tell us, split into believers and non-believers, whereby whatever the former say is flawless and whateve the latter say is automatically wrong all the time. there is a third category whereby we share in the experiences of unbelievers. sort of like a venn diagram, if you will. un/believers have equal access to natural law. this is why we see unbelievers so able to both know and do what is right and reject what is wrong. how else can you explain it when they are good people? how else can we work with them if it is not true that we both have the same natural assumptions of God's eternal law written on all our hearts? they may not acknowledge it (often times they do) as being God's, but that makes no difference either way. Yahweh is their LORD in creation just as much as us. we both know what is right and what is wrong. we both know stealing is wrong and being truthful is always right, right? i can tell both an unbeliever and believer that his use of porn is wrong and be right, right? it's just that there are different reasons for both of them, reasons that are true for both the unbeliever and believer and reasons that are only true for the believer.
...venn diagram...yeah, that's working for me...
zrim
Deadly Dangers of Moralism
2 Corinthians 5:17-20
Vs. 17 “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:”
That is what makes the difference in people's lives.
Vs. 17-20 This the mandate for the Christian in the world:
The ministry of reconciliation to God through Christ, which brings about righteousness, transformation, and a new creation.
Instead many Christians feel mandated to change the moral climate in our society. Many, with all of their energy, resources, time and money, attempt to change the moral character of our country. Politics, laws, etc.
It is our responsibility to address sin, to confront sin, to call it what it is, to expose it and to attack it, of course we are to hate evil and sin.
Christians are against immorality.
But what do we view as the solution;
new laws, more lobbying, media, etc.
or reconciliation to God through Christ? Which is our mandate?
Many believe if America becomes more moral and religious, then God will bless the country.
There is only one thing God blesses, just one, He blesses saving faith in and love for His Son. Anyone who does not believe in and love the Christ is among the cursed. 1 Corinthians 16:22
1 Timothy 4:8 We see where our energy and resources should focus.
Morality damns just like immorality; morality does not bring divine blessing.
Christ dealing with the “religious right” of His day. Matthew 23:
Vs. 13-16“woe unto you” 4 times : damn, judgment, curse.
Vs. 16: "Woe to you, blind guides." 17: "You fools and blind men."
Vs. 19: "You blind men."
23: "Woe to you,...scribes and Pharisees.”
24: "You blind guides."
25: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites."
26: "You blind Pharisee."
27: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees."
Jesus never used such words as those on the outcasts, the prostitutes, the criminals, whom He was with often.
Moralism was never the message of the OT prophets; never the message of the Messiah; never the message of the NT apostles and prophets.
Isaiah 64:6 / Romans 3:10, 12, 19
The Bible does not divide humanity into the moral and the immoral, rather
Romans 3:23 / Romans 2:11-12.
The effort for cultural morality:
1) is not our commission. 2 Cor. 5:17-20 / Mat. 28:19-20
2) wastes immense amounts of precious resources. Eph. 5:16
3) sets us up for inevitable failure, because you can't do it. Jer. 17:9
4) fails to understand the nature of the kingdom of God. John 18:36
5) puts the responsibility on man rather than God. Jeremiah 13:23
6) creates morality without theology. (We feel like those in Rev. 6:10)
7) fails to understand the salt and light as we see in Mat. 5:13-16
8) is dangerous b/c it has no NT model to follow except the Pharisees Mat. 23:15
9) creates unholy unions were the unbelieving and enemies of the gospel are welcome, ie: political alliances 2 Cor. 6:14
10) stretches the boundaries of the kingdom of God to embrace these people who are not in Christ; the gospel gets eclipsed. Gal. 1:8-9
11) becomes very selective as to the sins it attacks. What about the greatest commandment; Love your neighbor as yourself; or the Ten Commandments?
12) fails to understand the true nature of spiritual warfare. 2 Cor. 10:3-6
Spiritual warfare is smashing all human ideologies with "the truth" of God.
13) is dangerous because it makes those we are commanded to lovingly reach with the gospel into the enemy, rather than the mission field. Jonah
14) brings persecution and hatred of Christians for the wrong reasons.
Christians are villains in the media. 1 Peter 4:14 “for the name of Christ”
15) reverses the divine order.
It makes morality the power for salvation. (that is backwards)
16) fails to understand the wrath of God. Romans 1:18:32
“gave them up” 3 times vs. 24,26,28: Judgement
We can not overturn God’s wrath through politics.
17) is not how Christ used His time here on earth.
Our mandate has to do with the gospel and the gospel alone.
Moralism confuses and misses the priority for Christians in the world.
It misrepresents the divine message that man, moral or immoral, is damned, and must be saved and can be saved only by believing the gospel.
Philippians 3:4-9 Paul was morally blameless, but counted it all as loss.
At the time, his morality gave him the illusion that things were right with God, but later realized it was manure.
I do not say this to expose an ignorance in anyone as I lived for years with the same condition, but by the grace of God I did not die in that state. The best thing for one trapped in the state of repeated pornographic temptations and sinfulness is to do what God's word calls us to do and "flee" from it (1 Cor. 6:18 & 10:14, 1 Tim. 6:11, 2 Tim. 2:22, Jam 4:7). What did Jesus say in Matt. 5:29 and 18:9?
If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. (5:29)
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire. (18:9)
Application and personal note: I had battle with pornography even after I had assumed I had the battle won, but one thing has kept the battle at bay and it is a two-sided approach:
Read Romans 8 and focus on the intent of living out verse 5 "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit." Occupy yourself with doing the will of God - seeking the lost is an inexhaustible task - get busy in it and learning to better be a reconciler of men and women or bury yourself in the study of God through His word - living IN THE SPIRIT and set aside the lusts of the flesh.
Second step - get rid of your internet access at home. I thought I couldn't do it, but I am surviving without it and am blessed in the absence of it.
(BTW - I'm posting this on lunch at work so you don't think I'm lying about living at home without internet. It would be a pretty silly statement were I to be posting from home, huh?)
May this offer hope and encouragement to all who read it.
In Christ alone!
Bill
but if you have serious behavioral problems you need serious help, not scripture reading programs and pious prods to fill your idle time with converting the lost, etc. if you don't have serious behavioral problems quit acting like you do and trying to fool everyone that you got over a fabricated problem by high octane spirituality. it's more than transparent.
zrim