This Will Pack 'Em In!

Looking for a way to pack people into your church?  How about this?  Porn and Pancakes!

According to an article on wcbstv (Click here: wcbstv.com - Upstate NY Church Hosts 'Porn And Pancakes' Event) . . .

"(AP) ONTARIO, N.Y. It's not your typical church breakfast.

An event billed as `Porn and Pancakes' is being hosted by a church in rural upstate New York. The breakfast discussion on the pornography industry in America is planned next month at the Living Word Assembly of God Church in the town of Ontario, in rural Wayne County about ten miles east of Rochester. A billboard advertisement near the church shows the words `Porn and Pancakes' written in syrup on a stack of flapjacks. Organizers said the Feb. 10 event will be an honest discussion about pornography and its impact on society. The discussion will be led by XXX Church, a group of youth ministers who travel the country talking about porn and the porn industry. The pastor of the Wayne County church said that churches from Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse have asked about also hosting `Porn and Pancakes' events."

And you thought I was kidding . . . This one is so bad it is hard to say anything in reply.  Before anyone has a cow, the picture comes from the wcbstv website reporting on the event. 

Looks to me like a "bait and switch" operation of the first order.  And just what will the pastor say to all the sweet little old ladies and curious teens and their angry parents in his church?  I guess they just have to put up with this so the church can "reach out."

I give up . . . 

Comments

[anonymous]

I see no reason why the Reformed Christian cannot be commited to the doctrinal truths of his living faith, and at the same time see the need to reach out and help struggling guys from a destructive and addicting habbit. Granted, the advertisement is misleading, but I know from experience how porn may handicap a vibrant faith. Thanks to God's common grace, a year ago I downloaded some free accountability software from XXXchurch that keeps track of every website I visit and sends a listing of them every month to my accountability partner. I believe God uses instruments like these in the process of sanctification, as his way of helping us stay pure amidst the dangers of a secular age that has made impurity far easier by way of the internet. If the modern Evangelical thinks that fighting porn is all the church is about, he is deeply confused. But keeping this topic hushed up is no solution either, expecially in the midst of pastoral scandals that could have been prevented had the need for internet accountability been emphasized. I have reason to believe that my situtation (which in all honesty was very minor), is very typical of other guys out there. The free software can be found at XXXchurch.com, and I think that every Christian male should download it. If you can do it on your own and never slip, then that is to be applauded. But in that case, there's no need to worry about the embarrasment of facing a brother in Christ over a questionable website you visted, so it can safely be downloaded anyway. A little extra protection never harmed anyone.

I know this didn't apply to the pancake event, but as a life-long Reformed Christian, I can't tell you how grateful I am to the simple accountability program developed my XXXchurch.

[Joe]

Apparently "anonymous" in the previous post has not read some of what this "church" calls hate mail on their home site XXXchurch.com. If what I read is hate mail, then I guess CH Spurgeons message are "hate sermons". When Jesus refused to condemn the prostitute, I don't think He wanted everyone to go and witness what she had been doing to demonstrate that it was wrong. I think that the group is mocking the principal mission of the church to reach out to the lost without becoming part of them by wallowing in the same mud. I think you can tell people that God will deliver them without showing pictures of other people participating in the sin. I think we can get all the examples we need from our daily television programming.

[Jeremy]

And don't get me started on pancakes.

Seriously, how is Christianity supposed to be taken seriously when we do stuff like this? I think we are ultimately hurting ourselves when we compete with the world instead of offering an alternative to the world.

[Mattumanu]

Don't give up Kim! Where would be without you?

I once sent an email to these guys asking for a statement of faith or a confession. They replied, "our confession is Jesus". I was floored. It was amazing.

And about their "accountability" software... Am I the only one that thinks that such software is rubish? There are only about a 100 ways to circumvent such software, so what use is it? (just try starting a new guest account on your computer and watch what happens. Most of those products don't watch more than one account) If that doesn't work, there are other ways.

I can tell you, I live alone. What's it going to prove in the end to have software like that on my computer if my problem is I have a sinful nature and living under the law is going to condemn me? It's going to prove I'm a boastful AND lustful sinner who deserves nothing but temporal and eternal punishment.

So yeah, a big bait and switch like that just stinks. I don't often advocate this, but if I were a member of that church I'd not only boycot the XXX church think but pray hard about where my tithe is going.

[Craig Phelps]

My eyes are still recovering from seeing a billboard for this smut.

[Chris Allen]

This xxxchurch presents their ministry at Youth Conferences all around the U.S. I saw them this past summer at a youth conference presenting their video of how they attended a "porn convention".
Now, I think we need to really think it through on this "doing what Jesus would do".... For one thing we can't do what Jesus would do... we aren't able to enter the abyss of sin like Jesus can and come out not impacted whatsoever as Jesus could. So, I think there is some mis-guided idea that WE can DO what Jesus could do...and in fact already did. Also, we forget that we are to share the Gospel, not talk about making things easier or more comfortable.
2 Corinthians 5:16-21. We are to be reconciling people to Christ. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.[b] The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
So, isn't the Gospel what needs to be preached to those brothers in Christ who need to be reconciled to Christ. It seems to me that the Gospel isn't just for evangelizing the un-believer, it is also to remind the bretheren about the 3Gs... Guilt, Grace, and Gratitude. I guess I'm just whacky and should give up too...

[Robin]

Another question...

Pastor Kim, you said once, you "wouldn't have known what to do in the backseat of a car unless Josh MacDowel had mentioned it..." (in a youth group class.) So how do "classes" like porn addiction; finance; 10 tips to XYZ, Etc., affect the Christian? (Or, pagans for that matter?) Wouldn't the law increase sinful desires in these cases?

Not trying to be insensitive to the struggles of the faithful...but, how do we console and encourage those caught in grevious idolatry like porn?

Just wondering...

At least it's certain, pancakes won't help!

[Chris Sherman]

I'm not much for bait and switch or any other tricks of getting the Gospel out.

When it comes to evangelism, ".. faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ", seems simple enough.

Why try to improve on that?

If they are preaching the true Gospel amidst that principality, I say more power to them and
"How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"

If they are preaching anything else then . . .

[walt]

Jeremy made a good point.

We already have enough trouble evangelizing postmoderns without helping their cynicism. This XXXchurch isn't an anti-porn ministry, it is porn. They travel around with an inflatable phallus, for crying out loud. There's gotta be some action we can take about these hirelings. Disgusting!

[Brian]

Stunts like this church is pulling are typical, but what this post really does is raise the whole question of xxx church (yipe!), and the very real, ugly, and pervasive reality of internet porn and sanctification. I have wanted for so long for the likes of Kim, Horton, Clark, Godfrey, or the other folks who so clearly speak to the issue of sanctification to deal directly with this xxx church. I believe the xxx church folks are very sincere, but at best the xxx church solution is attempting to put out a raging fire with a toy water gun, at worst it is just pouring gasoline on the fire. If I have learned anything from listening to the WHI all these years it is that tecniques will never sanctify. The very best an internet filter will do is mask the deeper problem. In the end, even removing a computer, and all access to porn in your home will not work. Would this not fall under what Paul referes to as foolish methods that first appear wise in Colossians 2:23?

Dr. Riddlebarger, would you speak to these issues here?

[zrim]

he-he. oh, boy.

hey, chris, here are some more people i would have to give a sober no to about evangelizing. feel free to speak all you want to frinds and family, but ordination is probably not a good idea.

i saw these XXX guys on 60 minutes last sunday. this stuff is just so transparent. another, "how does religion meet a felt need"? the need here is just more moralizing, shapin gup, make bad people good and good people better. and because it is a sensitive subject, we feel like we should give this one a sober hearing. but i say, hogwash. i will keep my daughters from donning sophmoric silver rings and stick a copy the HB in their back pockets; grace, not self-willed moralisms. if that's not good enough for some...well, what can i say?

and, sorry, as a male, i have little sympathy for guys "caught up" in acting like little boys. spare me the addiction routine...you give people with real addictive issues and legit therapy a real black eye.

"And about their "accountability" software... Am I the only one that thinks that such software is rubish?"

nope, here's me raising my hand. spare us further antics to behave like children. it's wrong, stop it and quit treating yourself like your still 8. get rid of your 'accountibility partners' and babysitter software and act like man finally. the answer to all of this is grow up, y'all.


zrim

[zrim]

robin asks,

"Not trying to be insensitive to the struggles of the faithful...but, how do we console and encourage those caught in grevious idolatry like porn?"

my answer would be word and sacrament. granted, water, bread and wine are not as "sexy" as pancakes, but it's all God has provided, is it not?

zrim

[Tyler]

So I guess the whole point here is the horrible moralistic doctrine of XXX "church," right? Cuz I see no problem with false advertising; putting up a provocative sign to get them in and then slamming them with good ol' law/gospel preaching. No?

[Chris Sherman]

If you start with false advertising, then why would you expect anyone to believe the preaching?

[anonymus 2]

So I have a problem with this stuff. What do I do? Save the platitudes because I have been fighting this thing for years and it won't go away. Maybe it isn't a "real" addiction, but it sure as hell is a real problem that I can't shake. I don't mean to come off harsh, so forgive the harsh language, but I am really fighting this stuff. I live in Romans 7 with this sin, I don't want to do it, but I do it and when I do my best no to struggle, it just seems worse. I go to a good reformation church, I've repented a million times and it still haunts me. I've heard law and gospel, I've had word and sacrament, and I still fight it. What is wrong if this just isn't working. Any guidance would be helpful.

[Tyler]

"If you start with false advertising, then why would you expect anyone to believe the preaching?"

Why should you expect 'em to throw everything out the window and ignore the message? Plus, what's been falsely advertised? I'm sure they had or will have pancakes and there will be talk about pornography. I suppose as long as those two things are there, and THEN you drop the Gospel on them, then that is not false advertising. But then I guess preaching the Gospel at one of these things WOULD be false advertising because if people know that XXX church doesn't preach the Gospel, then it would be pure trickery if they went into this event expecting the Gospel.

[Tyler]

Sorry, "NOT expecting the Gospel and then got it preached to them."

[Mattumanu]

anonymus 2,

Here's how Martin Luther responded to Philip Melencthon on a similar topic.

>>If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God's glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner.<<

In other words, turn away from the fight and live for Christ! Our victory is in him, not in the world.

[Chris Sherman]

Hi Tyler,

Beats me if they are false advertising or not, I was just responding to your saying, "Cuz I see no problem with false advertising..."

True ministers of the Word don't need to be tricky.

I have an example I'll post later.

[Tyler]

Chris,

My bad. False advertising is wrong. I just meant it's fine to advertise pancakes and porn (hahaha, how silly), and then hit 'em over the head with the Gospel.